Blindness Cave

[gibsondodds]

Baba never changes: discuss.

[Knuckles]

Right now I kind of find it hard to say for sure only because I'm not even half way through the novel. However, based on what I see of him, he doesn't seem like the kind of character that would go through a massive change in his personality. Like Amir said (I don't remember where specifically), everything seems to revolve around him. The only major change with him I've seen so far is the attention he gives Amir when he wins the tournament. Since then he wouldn't shut up about his achievement. Although Amir got the attention he craved from Baba, I don't know if its such a good thing though because its here when he begins to show that he is more worried about his reputation than anything else. I began to see this when he apologized at Amir's birthday party when he turned down the invitation for volleyball with Assef. He also did this to everyone when Amir threw up in the van on their way to Jalalabad as if it was a bad thing.

[redcrayon]

I agree with you Knuckles. Baba seems to have his own standards that he wants Amir to acheive, and if he never does, he won't be content with him, even if it's his son. All Amir has ever wanted was for Baba to accept him for the way he was and hopefully forgive him for killing his wife during child birth; however, he is never happy with him unless he acheives in sports as he did when he was younger. Baba is concerned that Amir will be a pushover and won't be able to stand his own ground, but I believe Amir just needs Baba to be more accepting towards him and realize that he isn't into the same things he was at his age. Baba likes to always be right and isn't very understanding when it comes to taking criticism or opinions from other individuals though..

[Knuckles]

Its hard to say now. When they move to America, he seems to be a bit different now. Certainly his morals and values haven't changed one bit, but his relationship with Amir seems to have gotten a lot better. Before he dies, he seems to be a lot more thankful for his son than when they were in Kabul. Although he seems to have gotten a bit stronger with the 0"Haven't I taught you anything?" attitude, it's a lot better than his almost dismissive attitude at the beginning of the book. His relationship with Amir certainly shows a bit of change in him, but his strong morals and values certainly seem to have remained the same.

[berryfairy10]

I agree, Baba does not change very much throughout the novel. It is also true America does change him slightly. He becomes more accepting of Amir. Baba and Amir have to battle with poverty in the States. Near the end of the novel Amir does say that he thinks him and Baba were on better terms in America because it was their 'hut'. He thought maybe Baba saw more of Hassan in him when they lived in the american version of a hut.
Instead of the 'half that represented the riches he had inherited and sin-with-impunity privileges that came with them'

[berryfairy10]

I agree, Baba does not change very much throughout the novel. It is also true America does change him slightly. He becomes more accepting of Amir. Baba and Amir have to battle with poverty in the States. Near the end of the novel Amir does say that he thinks him and Baba were on better terms in America because it was their 'hut'. He thought maybe Baba saw more of Hassan in him when they lived in the american version of a hut.
Instead of the 'half that represented the riches he had inherited and sin-with-impunity privileges that came with them'

[gibsondodds]

I like how Baba refused to accept welfare from the government and that he's willing to humble himself and work menial jobs for pay. He seems to have more dignity than that of the General who accepts the welfare and refuses to do menial work but rather parades around the market place like he's still a general in the Afghan army.

[Septamis]

The general, in a way, still thinks he is still an Afghan military general from the age before the Russians invaded. He is waiting to get called back to his country when order is brought back to his country. Baba does not have any plans, that are voiced in the novel, thats says he ever wants to return to Kabul. Baba also becomes closer to Amir because he is now the only one of his sons to live with him anymore. If someone had two sons or children and they lost one somehow, the parent/s would most likely "cling" to their surviving child. This is why Baba changes he loses someone "like" a son to him andstarts to appreciate what Amir does.

[gibsondodds]

Yes, I agree, but your comments make the General look kind of pathetic and "Old World" and out of date. As far as Baba is concerned, you kind of make him out to be selfish and stuck "in and for the moment." If there was a better son around, he'd be more attached to him?

I don't disagree with you; I'm just trying to get clarification. Also, is there anyone else out there who agrees/disagrees?

[Steelemagnum]

I totally agree with what Septamis is saying because if you were to lose something that big in your life like a loved one you would want to hang onto what you have for dear life because you'd be afraid that you would lose that too. Baba I think does have too much pride to give into welfare and getting "donations" from the governement, but at the same time the fact that the general is taking the welfare money and the coupons or what ever i don't think makes him a lesser of a man i think it just shows that he still wants to live the way he did in kabul, and to do that i guess he has to live through welfare.

[the.beginning]

There are a few good ones but the rest... I don't think you guys think deep enough.